Yep. We won't be liked for this post. And, that's okay. We weren't looking to be liked, but to post our opinion on the matter.
We have reworked this post in an effort to show that we meant no disrespect to authors, in general, with any story writing. And, after reading some of the comments, I believe that perhaps it was a little...disrespectful. Just a little. To the writers of what are great stories. I do believe, however, that the pulling and publishing of Twilight Fan Fiction will be detrimental to the fandom, and we will see its demise.
With regards to this idea of plagiarism, it must be remembered that until recently, it has been common practice for authors to insert disclaimers at the top or bottom of each chapter posted, reading something along the lines of: "Stephenie Meyer owns Twilight and all its characters. I own nothing. Yadda yadda yadda." Now, we are beginning to witness a revolution, of sorts, whereby authors may still be inserting such disclaimers, but they are also stating that their stories are copyrighted to themselves, ie. intellectual property. Yes, in so much as no one can copy someone else's story and pass it off as their own. In essence, an author's fan fic belongs to him or her and to no one else. However, upon entering any fan fiction realm, whether it is for Twilight, Star Trek, Alias, or Doctor Who, and when we decide to 'publish' our own fan fic within such realms, we do so because we are allowed to by the original creators (like Stephenie Meyer) to present as new and original an idea or product derived from THEM.
Twilight fan fics are Twilight fan fics precisely because they contain either some element(s) of Stephenie's stories, AND/OR a little or a lot of Stephenie's character(s). Twilight fan fic READERS would have absolutely no reason to click on a story to read if it wasn't labeled as a Twilight fan fic, or if they didn't read into the fan fic as being Twilight-related (all-human or not). So, the moment an author decides to pull their story, which was labeled as a Twilight fan fic, which was presented as a new and original idea derived from an existing source (Stephenie Meyer), and then 're-worked' for outside publishing for monetary gain as something truly original, one must ask, "Is it truly original?" And, if so, "Why was it ever marketed to Twilight fandom as a Twilight fan fic to begin with?"
There are reasons why there are many authors (Stephen King, Anne Rice, etc) who refuse to allow fandoms to express excitement over THEIR original works. I was told on Twitter last night that I should just be happy that I, as a reader, get to read these 'original' fan fics for free before they are sold to the outside world. I disagree. Wholeheartedly. I know that the flaming we are about to endure for this post will come from both the authors who are pulling and their legion of faithful followers. I beseech each and every one of you, flamers and supporters alike, to ponder over this issue in a rational manner, intelligently. I refuse, as a reader, to be a guinea pig to authors who wish to try their hand at a Twilight fan fic (or any fan fic from any realm) to garner an idea of support so they can then pull their story for the expressed desire to publish it on the outside as something erroneously not derived from an existing source. Ie. original. I am all for original publishing, but not at the cost of the reader. If Stephenie decides one day that such 'original' publishing is a hoax, we all suffer. Because all it takes is for her to remove her consent from places like FFn, and we're all screwed once she joins the likes of Stephen King, Anne Rice, et al.
The Office by tby789 - Was pulled originally because of 'An opportunity that came to light during recent media events'. Christina has stated on her website that she is not on the Omnific Staff nor is she involved with them as an author. No other information is available at this time.
Boycotts and Barflies by vjgm - On sale at Omnific Publishing.
The War Inside by Sparabella - ........................Anybody wanna chime in on this one? Frankly, I'm baffled.
Poughkeepsie by Mrs. TheKing- The author states she had to take the chapters down because of an unauthorized translation. This does happen quite a lot, I'm afraid, and it's really a shame that it happened to such a wonderful story. BUT, on January 12th, she updated her profile. She still states that it was taken down due to the unauthorized translation, however she states on her FF profile that she 'will update this profile when I have a link to the published original fiction, I am in the process of reworking it'.
thats fucking awesome that boycotts and Barflies was published! its an amazing story!
ReplyDeleteWell honey, Just head right on over to Omnific and buy that puppy! I much more prefer the pretty little original I have on PDF. I'm sure the reworked story is ten times more awesome!
ReplyDeleteInteresting.
ReplyDeleteSo, you believe that an original story which happens to share the names of characters from Twilight should just be put in the dead column, then? That the Twilight fandom are the only ones worthy to read our work?
Contrary to what you may believe, I didn't choose to publish to make money. I published so that people outside of the fandom would read and possibly enjoy what I write.
We do not deserve your scorn and ridicule for trying to pursue a dream. I set out to publish my experiences to the world because I got dozens messages from people whose lives were made better by TFR. Either they have better sex lives, or they are coping better with their own abuse. Why would I not open that up to a larger audience? The Forbidden Room has nothing whatsoever to do with Twilight.
If you want to report on recent happenings in the fandom which is the purpose for your blog, I do not take issue with that. However, the intended condescension is not appreciated.
you know honey, i bet the reworked one is 10 times better and im proud to say i read it first.
ReplyDeletewho are you to judge what other authors do. if you dont want to publish your work, thats fine, but you have no right to bitch about other authors getting published. just because your not good enough get published doesn't mean you have to take your spite out on other people.
Of the mentioned fics I can only speak about TFR because it's the only I've read to the end. I enjoyed the fanfic a lot, I enjoy the now published book even more because IMHO it was a wasted potential up on FFn. The characters shared the names and physical descriptions with the Twilight counterparts, but that was where the resemblance ended for me. I'm glad Trish put the effort into disbanding the twilight fanfic mantle and publishing the story, it's one of the few that really doesn't deserve comments like "I like your Edward better than most others" because of the inherent originality.
ReplyDeleteIf you're so sore, you should use more lube. I hear it helps.
So, you believe that an original story which happens to share the names of characters from Twilight should just be put in the dead column, then? That the Twilight fandom are the only ones worthy to read our work? --Um, yeah. It's pulled, correct? We can no longer read the story on FF, so yes. No, the Twilight fandom aren't the only one's worthy to read your work. But your work was originally based for the Twilight fandom. End of.
ReplyDeleteContrary to what you may believe, I didn't choose to publish to make money. I published so that people outside of the fandom would read and possibly enjoy what I write. --For $9.95-Paperback. I'm sure it's money well spent. It was a great story, from what I was told.
We do not deserve your scorn and ridicule for trying to pursue a dream. I set out to publish my experiences to the world because I got dozens messages from people whose lives were made better by TFR. Either they have better sex lives, or they are coping better with their own abuse. Why would I not open that up to a larger audience? The Forbidden Room has nothing whatsoever to do with Twilight.--Pursue your dreams, we have no problem with that. I'm glad your fic helped people. But your fic, doesn't stand alone. There are several readers, and writers that come into FF to get away from there RL issues to just dream or have their own fantasies with Edward,Jasper, Bella..and now, it's dissappearing, piece by piece. The Forbidden Room has nothing whatsoever to do with Twilight? You posted it to Fanfiction! Twilight Fanfiction.
I think it's great that fanfic is finding new audiences by being published. Some of those stories are great and DESERVE to be published. Most people will never be able to find them if they remain 'hidden' on websites only the insiders know how to find! You should ALL publish your work (if you dare) so that larger numbers of people get to enjoy your ideas!!!
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteAnnon- um, I do this for fun. Period. I write, for fun. Period. This has nothing to do with spite. And, if I want to be published, I can be published. DefinitelyStaying used Amazon's site, which is a site were it doesn't take a genius to get approved to publish a book. For a fee, I might add. Would you like me to find some more? These sites are everywhere. Omnific is one of them. I simply believe that all this story pulling and book publishing will be detrimental to the fandom. And since I'm a part of it, I have every fucking right to bitch. Plain and Simple. Agree or don't agree.
ReplyDeleteI have to say, some of them are really well written, and I wouldn't mind seeing the original rewrites. As someone who is about to send their work out to publishers I would hope that what I have written is nothing like Twilight in any way. Yes, it was originally written as a fanfic, but the overall idea (especially the rewrite) has nothing to do with twilight at all.
ReplyDeleteI think that is someone is a good enough writer, has an original idea (whether written for fanfic originally or not) then they should go for it and get published if they so wish. We should be supporting these authors in their pursuits, not discouraging them.
After all, we all have to start somewhere.
my biggest problem with the trend of fan ficition going published is that SM may take it as a very good reason to pull Ann RIce on as all. In a situation like that - thousands of fans will be deprived of the joy of having fun with writing & reading fan fiction.
ReplyDeleteMost of the stories really cannot stand without the twilight characters background in my opinion.
I think TFR and Black&Wihite are written in a way that they are able to make a good work of fiction without ever being connected to twilight series. 99% of twilight fan fiction is written with clear characterization in mind. That belongs to SM and not to fan fiction authors no matter how original ideas and adventures characters get themselves into.
I think of fan fiction as a pleasure time, time for fun. I can understand that people get their own ideas but copyright is serious and we should all respect it especially if it is from something we love so much. Fan fiction is legal bc copyright owners tolerate it & consider it a PR.
I would advise all ff authors who have their own original ideas - to post on blogs or not in any way connect it with any copyrighted materials so the story can always stay their own.
Kind of appalling that you would go to this much effort to be spiteful and catty. I, personally will be among those purchasing copies of fics which come available because I loved the stories and found they had merit to stand on their own. My favorite fics are generally so far removed from Twilight that I think their authors deserve to be published for their ideas.
ReplyDeleteI mean, Poughkeepsie? It belongs on my shelf in a place of honor, and all my friends would get a copy for their birthdays.
When I was given a copy of Twilight it changed my life, and obviously yours since you put so much work into this blog. I would love for Poughkeepsie to be able to do that for someone else who would otherwise never have found it due to Twilight aversion.
So, can you back up off the hate a little?
To: IDreamOfEddy
ReplyDeleteRE: It was a great story, from what I was told.
If you've never even read the fic that you're reporting on, how are you qualified to make any kind of judgment as to its suitability for publication?
I did consult an attorney prior to publication, one that had read TFR and Twilight. It is not a derivative work, and therefore copyright is not an issue. The Forbidden Room has been registered for its own federal copyright. The TFR series is the only former fanfiction that I will publish. Little Boy Lost is entirely original, the first book of which due to be out next month.
2nd Annon: We should all reach for the stars, I agree! However, I have this thing with ethics and morals. Publishing it in a site that is just for Twilight FF seems a little too risky. FF might be a way to hone and polish the writing skills, but pulling a fic from such a site to be published just seems wrong. I can't see how it's all legal in the first place.
ReplyDeleteI guess it's time we took it to the boss lady. Let her put her two cents worth in. It's my opinion that this is all hers anyway, so let's let her decide. Maybe after I hear some words from the wise one, maybe my view point could change...Ha! hahahahaa!
To DF: Way to get the plug in there!
ReplyDeleteYou Pulled your story off FF. You were on author alert. I have tons of author's on author alert. I just always skipped by it. You published it on Amazon.
There are several posts over at ADF that argue the difference between derivative works and Transformative works. It's a debate that even a few lawyers put their two cents in, and the outcome? Nobody really seems to know.
I'm a huge fan of fanfic....300+ stories on my alert list. I've read, or was reading, all of the stories on your list and enjoyed them. Was I pissed when they were taken down? Sure, but only because I wasn't smart enough to copy/save them before hand.
ReplyDeleteAm I pissed that the authors want to publish them in a different forum? No. Authors that post on fanfic give us, the readers, a gift when they decide to share their words. I am honored to be allowed to enjoy their/your work, for free, whenever I want.
Are there fics that have been pulled that I will purchase if they are published? Absolutely. I already have The Forbidden Room. And if The War Inside makes it, I'll probably buy that as well.
As far as I know there's no rule that says stories have to remain in the fanfic world forever and ever. My thought is to enjoy them while they're there.
I hate that there's in-fighting in the fanfic community. And I guess I just don't understand why. I'm just here to read the stories. I take no sides. If an author does something in a story or a post that I don't like, I have the right to remove their stories from my alert and favorite lists. It's as simple as that.
I say live and let live.
I'm off now to read some updated fics.
Mauralee88
Chloe.
ReplyDeleteI agree. 105%.
oh would that you could. i bet you would love to see what "boss lady" had to say. like one other reader posted, she could also do something like Ann Rice and not allow people to use her work as fan fiction. So go ahead and talk to "boss lady" if she does pull an Ann Rice you will single handedly have torn the fandom apart. That will, in my humble opinion just prove to everyone what a spiteful bitch you truly are.
ReplyDeleteBe happy for those who have published. TFR was an amazing story and honestly had nothing to do with twilight with the exception of using the names. It stands alone, FF is for fun and while people use the names and faced of the characters SM wrote, they each and everyone of them have their own stories, they own plot and their own ways of dealing with issues with in the stories.Each author puts their own valuable time into writing (you should remember what thats like) and we don't have the right to judge anyone for how they write, what they write and what they do with their own stories.
You would do well to remember that.
chele681 -Have I not gone to Mrs. TheKing's profile last night, I would have simply noted it as being pulled for illegal translation, which this topic also covers. That's not to fault the author, that's to discourage others who might read this blog from plagiarism and or illegal translation. In retrospect though that now the fic is being published, I simply put on there what I read on her profile.
ReplyDeleteI have no issue with anyone going after they're dreams to be a writer. The more power to you. But I do believe a fine line has been crossed and that the pulling of story for publication that was originally based for the Twilight fandom will be detrimental to Twilight Fanfiction. That remains to be seen. We are a catty bunch here, that much is true. But we disapprove. And I would say that if there is one book that so far has been pulled for publication that I would buy, it would be Poughkeepsie. But I envisioned Edward. Bella. Jasper. Alice. Emmett. Rosalie. I don't think that could change with the story reworked. I will actually miss that one greatly.
I find it incredibly sad that you would take your time and energy away from the fanfic that you enjoy to spend time tearing down the very people that have brought it to you.
ReplyDeleteYour threat to take it to the "boss lady" is spiteful and will do NOTHING but HARM the very thing you claim you want to preserve. What is your end game here? Do you want to bring the whole thing crashing down a la Anne Rice?
These writers, most of whom have jobs, lives, families put in countless hours and many tears writing stories that in many ways are far more creative and well developed than the originals. They do it for many reasons; to develop their writing, to get an idea out of their heads, to step outside their comfort zone and do something they only ever dreamed of...yet you insist on sucking the joy right out of it.
Anyone in the fandom that has invested their time and emotional energy loving these stories is being done a disservice by your ranting and threats.
These authors that have chosen to publish their works, have taken great leaps of faith and worked very hard to make their dreams a reality. Their morals, ethics, etc...are not yours to judge.
Of the authors you've mentioned nearly all have expressed at one point or another; either here, on their blogs, through their threads, etc., that they have spoken with attorneys regarding the legality of what they are attempting. That being said, unless you are a copyright attorney with first hand knowledge of every one of these cases, I find it hard to believe you are qualified or justified in any of your accusations.
I will admit one thing here. I am upset that some of these fics were pulled. Only because I didn't get the chance to read them. I bookmarked them, among over 100 others, but didn't get there quickly enough. People still rave about them, and I am sad that I didn't get to read some of them and make up my own mind about them.
ReplyDeleteI've read some work others have raved about, and decided it wassn't for me. With some of these, I will now never have the chance to make up my mind.
You know something? That's just fine.
If you bust your ass to write something, it's yours to do with as you choose. Derivative, transformative, original, pure fanfic, it's still the author who has put in the effort.
So someone wants to share their work outside the fandom? More power to them!
Someone pissed that their work my be getting completely mistranslated without their permission? They have every right to be pissed!
Tired of people posting it elsewhere as their own? Completely understandable.
Sick of people flaming them because of what or how they write? The flamers should be ashamed.
I have original work that I will probably never let anyone see. That's my business. I worked myself up to panic attacks over the lone o/s I have posted. That's my issue, and my business.
Am I sad that I may never get to read these fics? Yes.
Do I whine a little about it on Twitter? Yes.
Am I going to go flame any of these authors for the choices thay have made regarding the hard work they have done? Fuck no!
Enjoy what is shared, while it is shared, lament the loss, respect the author.
If we want to be petty and blame someone why not blame Olivia Byrd. She was the "fan" that stole "Boycotts and Barflies" to have it published in her name. After that I can understand why authors would pull ther stuff. They have that right. She put a level of distrust among the authors and the readers, as well as proving that there are stories out there that are done well enough to get published.
ReplyDeleteDoesn't it suck sometimes when stores get pulled? Sure! Will the world end if the fic I loved I now have to pay for? Nope! If I loved it enough to get upset that it was Pulled then I love it enough to Pay for it.
There's one thing that I still don't understand... if the stories are original, with original plots and the only resemblance with Twilight is names and physical descriptions of the characters, why do you publish them in Twilight FF??? Why don't you use some other names and make your work original from the beginning?
ReplyDeleteI encourage everyone to pursue their dreams and all, but if you publish something it's not right to pull it off later.
I can't understand how this is legal. I thought once a work is published you can't not register it or patent it. I'm confused.
Why wouldn't I plug? Isn't that what you're accusing me of - using the Fandom for my own gain?
ReplyDeleteI don't have a problem with you disagreeing with our choice to pull our fics, I don't even have a problem with you taking issue with the publication. What I do have a problem with is the rude and hostile manner in which you chose to air your grievences, starting with the title of your post and the image.
As for "Boss Lady" - do you really think she'd give up the free publicity? Fanfiction promotes the original work, especially some of the frenzies it creates - ComicCon, magazine articles, interviews. Hell, even Robert Pattison and Jackson Rathbone have admitted reading Twilight Fanfiction in interviews. Even after Breaking Dawn is on DVD - people will still be talking about Twilight, in part because of Fanfiction.
On behalf of myself and my fellow authors who are currently weathering the storm - thank you to those that support us. We honestly and sincerely appreciate it.
I am extremely glad that you were not on a different fandom I frequented. Many authors there published fics and they are now noted as stand alone authors in their own right. For example, Cassandra Clare is an author that her Mortal Instruments is a transformed version of FF
ReplyDeleteI have always supported you guys and will continue to do so, but girls, this is kinda fucked up. I mean, do I agree with the publishing? No. Will I talk to you guys about it and whatever on twitter, sure because it's my own personal account and I'm not flaming anybody. I was shocked when Christina pulled The Office, pissed even because I loved the story. I was shocked when I found out yesterday that TFR had been published, but is it REALLY my business? I won't be buying stories that were ff's, but that's my choice, and my part.
ReplyDeleteI know a few of these authors and can say without conviction that they would NEVER blast any of you. I'm pretty sure two of them even thought of some of you as friends. Did you stop to think how this would make them feel? Maybe you guys don't care, but I'm a firm believer in treating people how you want to be treated.
I pulled a story last week. It's my story I can do what I want with it. I'll be pulling another in a couple months. I'm not happy with them.If that stops people from reading, fine. I write for myself. I love and appreciate the people that read my work, but they don't determine what I do with it. You will never see me try to publish anything that I post on a public forum, but I can see how it would be appealing.
While I'm with you on a lot of things, I just don't see the point in this segment. All the published title will be revealed in time anyway. Seems pretty hateful and dramatic.
@ChocolateME - that is the question everybody is asking. The truth is with 99& of stories that they would not receive 15% of attention that they received as TWILIGHT fan fiction.
ReplyDeleteAs a fan fiction author I am well aware of this. People read fan fiction bc they feel the connection with the characters from the copyrighted published work of fiction. so claiming that stories and characters are not in any way connected to twilight is for 99% stories untrue.
I stand by my opinion that from stories i read TFR and B&W are in that 1%.
But most of you are ignoring the bigger problem here. Ann Rice was suspicious of fan fiction but she tolerated it. And BOOM. The ban came out of nowhere and so many stories were gone for good. Nowadays it is extremely difficult to get you eyes to great fan fiction of vampire world of AnnRIce.
Still, I am not angry at authors that pull their stories offline for any reason. One girl pretended she DIED to get away from fan fiction. Okay she is messed up if u ask me, but people bet tiered or just are not into it & stop . I was frustrated when some stories pulled for those or reasons of publishing and I was disappointing. But i moved on pretty quickly. I love to read work of fiction more, fan fiction is more work out for my English & to socialize with people all around the world.
Annon: Do you believe it hasn't already been done by someone else? And I would single handedly be the one that tore the fandom apart? Now, tell me, why would you say something like that if you didn't somewhat believe that all this pulling of stories for publication was detrimental to the fandom in some way?
ReplyDeleteSo your last post accomplished something. I won't be the one informing Stephenie. Let's ride it out. I'm sure it'll all be just fine. Right? I mean, since I won't be informing 'The Boss', she'll get no wind of it at all, right?
Keep it coming.
Congratulations to those authors who were able to publish their original works!! FF is a great arena to work on ideas, get feedback in almost real time, and try out writing altogether. I am so proud of those authors who were able to get published. WELL DONE!! :) To those who feel the need to gripe about it, you're free to express your own opinion. In my own opinion, I don't think the authors that have pulled stories and published should apologize for ANYthing. They pursued a dream and they succeeded! It's not like they signed a contract with FF, it was done for the fun of it. And those of us that read FF didn't sign a contract, either. We're doing this for fun, people! Why do so many people take this so personally and feel like they've been betrayed? Seriously, we are truly priviledged to read some fantastic stories that we love so much, FOR FREE. We have an almost unlimited number from which to choose! And for those we truly love, why wouldn't we want to see them published and shared with others? I know I do. Sincerely, MaBarberElla
ReplyDeleteI don't typically comment on blog posts, positive or negative. In my heart I feel like all discord will smooth itself out. But in this case, I will say that this fandom is forgetting itself--it's sense of importance is skewed. Are we so caught up in this illusionary little universe of ours that it's become imperitive for us to maintain it exactly as it's always been, with its authors completely unchanged and collecting dust on a shelf? This is fanfiction... this is not worth so much hatred and attempted sabatage, simply because authors who have written work that is so far removed from anything to do with the stinking Twilight series decided to take the fruits of their labor and share it with the world. You may not believe that what you do to someone else will come back to you in its own way, but I don't doubt it for a moment. Where you can act/speak/think in kindness, do so. It's time to step back and graciously allow these ladies to succeed.
ReplyDelete@Chloe- and still, no one has the answer.
ReplyDeleteOne girl pretended she died?! That's pretty fucked up! LOL!
I have nothing against people who write and want to get published, that's perfect. But I don't think publishing something as FanFiction and trying to make it original later is legal or right. I'm no lawyer and I'm sure the law differs in each country and I have no idea how it is in the US, but this just looks a little dodgy. There's a thin line between original and FF.
Anyway, I'm not going to buy this now published stories because I doubt they're going to make it to my country and because other many reasons. So, I'm glad that now more people can read them. *ironic*
Some people said that an author has every right to pull off their stories from fanfiction for whatever the reason. Yes, it's true. But do they they really have a right to trademark them as original? Oh, I really don't know but I know that yes, this is definitely detrimental to the FF world.
there are always more authors just waiting to post their stories. im not worried about the the pulling of stories being "detrimental" losing authors do to slander and bashing from other authors is detrimental. I personally am thinking of pulling my stories and walking away from this fandom. we have lost a few amazing artists in the last few months do to slander. Beautiful Figment is gone (though i dont know her reasons) and now Fiberkitty is talking about pulling LaF! how is what you are doing with this post accomplishing anything? it leaves a bitter taste in peoples mouths when dealing with the Fandom.
ReplyDeleteI for one am sorry you took such offense to what these authors have done. I back Dstaying and all the rest in their choices. its their work and they are free to do what they want. if SM does pull the plug on us FF writers, so be it. but it shouldnt be because some spiteful writer got her jollies pissing people off. This group is all about negativity and i for one am sick of it. you give the Fandom a bad name.
I'm not entirely sure what your little stab at our fic (The War Inside) was all about. Your blog entry is the precise reason why our story was pulled--what we wanted to do with our story line didn't fit within the "realms" of Twilight fan fiction--and I think that that was adequately explained, if you bothered to pay attention.
ReplyDeleteNot entirely sure why you're making an issue out of this (for the fics you included on your little list and the ones you didn't), other than to stir yet another dramarific issue. Shame on you.
While I understand the desire to actually publish your hard work, and congrats to those of you that have succeeded, I do see IDoE's point. Many os us devote a great deal of time to reading these FF's and when they are pulled it is rather disappointing. I think as an author if you are even considering sending your work to a publisher you should never publish it as a FF. Just my opinion.
ReplyDeleteIDoE - You go girl! You speak your mind and get blasted for it. Yes I was pissed when TWI was pulled, I had followed the story since the very first chapter was posted, then poof it was gone.
Fuck Ya that sucked. No I will not go out of my way to purchase a book that I know has already at least been partially published on FF. It is just wrong. If you are writing original work then keep it to yourrself until you can get it published. And for God's sakes take down the banners that link to the story, only to be informed it has been pulled.
Anyways good luck to all the authors that are trying to get published, but please try to make sure it is original work, not based off of characters that another author has already made millions on.
PJJ0930
Pam
I'm sorry, I stand firm with the Lambs on this.
ReplyDeleteIn my opinion, for what it's worth, an original story is just that, original. It's something you build from the ground up; characters, backgrounds, settings, plot, the whole nine yards. IF said story has all of these elements and the characters still aren't your own, it isn't original. End of. IF reading something from Twilight inspired you to write something completely your own, because it inspired you to grow as a writer; then that is yours and yours alone, so long as it doesn't pertain to something that belongs to someone else.
Can I give a totally off topic example here? Well, guess what? I'm going to! Muhahahahaha
I breed, raise, train, show, and sell horses. If you want me to be more specific, I have running bred barrel horses. Now, I put ALOT of blood, sweat, tears, and money into them to make them what they are. Whether it be a futurity horse, a weekend jackpot horse, or a rodeo horse (these are all different divisions and levels of competition).
My horse's are branded, for multiple reasons. One of those being the nasty tornados we have around here but thats another story. They are also branded because when they are sold and people take them to a show or a rodeo, folks know were they came from. They know beyond the shadow of a doubt who trained them and if they want one, they can drop by, because more than likely I'll have another one or will know someone who does.
That being said, if someone were to strut around saying that they trained a horse wearing MY brand-that is a slap in my face. I did that work, not them. I was the one in the barn at 2 am in the middle of February delivering that foal, not them. They can buy the horse and win money, I want them to, but dammit, give credit were credit is due. Without the foundation, in my case the work I put into these horses; in the case of the fandom, the work SM has put into HER characters, you have nothing.
Clear as mud?
Well this is interesting. I for one, think that speaking your mind on the issue is your choice, of course. Free speech and all, so more power to you. That being said, I don't think that an author, whose storyline is original, AH, AU, who has the potential to be a published story and extend from the fandom for others enjoyment, should be kept from being published. Just because a storyline was initially written as a TwiFic or any other fandom for that matter, doesn't mean that it couldn't evolve into more. I can totally understand it from the viewpoint of fics being published that are too much like Twilight. I can see how SM would be highly pissed and want to yank away our fun, but for fics like TFR and The Office, I don't see the deal. The only thing that is the same is the names, descriptions, and maybe some of the locations. If those are changed in the general realm of things, then in actuality, it is an original piece of work. If an author can get it published and changed enough of it not to be associated with Twilight then I say they should go for it. Let those who want to buy it, buy it and those who don't, don't.
ReplyDeleteThere have been several fics, The Office included, that I wished I could just take off my shelf and crawl into bed and read on a rainy day, (because I am too cheap to spend all the money to print it out from my ancient ink eating printer) and I am excited at the idea that some of my favorite stories are being published as original works. But that is just my humble ass opinion.
Speaking your mind and being forthright with how you feel is always a good thing, but I have to say that the way the original post was done, bothered me greatly. It was rude and almost felt as an attack on the authors, which I guess in a way it was. I have always had a great respect for the authors on this blog, and enjoyed your work and even some of your friendship, but I believe that respect was knocked down greatly today with the original post. I know my respect means nothing to you; I am just stating how I feel. There is a fine line between being eccentric and speaking ones mind and taking shit too far, and the original post took it too far. I do hope that we will not see more attacks on other Fan Fiction authors and their stories. It puts a nasty taste in the mouth of Fan Fiction and it is sad we can't just support others and their success. If we have such controversy within ourselves, then it will be only a matter of time when SM doesn't want that kind of thing to happen and then petty bullshit will ruin the joy in writing about our favorite characters and then where will be? Without a community that means so much to people. I so hope we don't see that happen, and I don't think that people getting their original works, who are so far removed from Twilight, published will do that, but I do believe some who cause unnecessary discord over something petty will.
Ladies, by all means, speak your minds and be your normal non-filter selves that we all love, but please, think of others feelings in how you do it.
I read the stories that were pulled. None of them ever made it to my favorites list because none of them were that interesting to me. They were, for the most part, predictable, trite, and written by people with egos that were unjustified. It's what the actions said to me, and it's how I felt.
ReplyDeleteNow with the stories pulled and being published via Vanity Press I feel used. None of these stories were really dealt with the Twilght world or characters. We fans were used as sound boards for a bit, then to create a fan base, and now we're being treated as cash cows.
My money is staying in my pocket. I'm not PDFing a damn thing. If authors want to take their ball and go home, fine. They can be whiny little bitches like that. There are hundreds of thousands of more stories to read out there, and they are all free. I personally own close to seven hundred books that have gone through the vetting process of having copy editors pour over them to make sure they are worthy of print.
If push really comes to shove, I can always read the Twilight books again :D
MD- I agree with EVERY word you said. Why would anyone want to start reading a story that will never have a conclusion...unless we purchase the published reworked version. Yes, an author has the right to pull a story for w/e reason but authors need to have some respect for the readers/reviewers who took the time to become invested in the story you were telling. Some authors I believe start buying into their "celebrity hype" and become arrogant. I mean come on...some of these stories were good but alot of them were so redundant and not original in the least! I have read better stories that had 300 reviews! We as readers were great while we were reviewing and pimping their stories, but at the end of the day like MD said we were nothing but cash cows to them. It is safe to say not a dime of my $$ will ever go to purchasing a reworked TWILIGHT fanfic.
ReplyDeleteJaspersDestiny, woman, you know I love you but quit messing with my blood pressure today!!!
ReplyDeleteOne could cover up the brand with one of their own, I sincerely hope the horse kicks the individual's teeth in during the process....did I really just type that? Looks like it.
Everyone will know all the same though, it's hard to miss a copy cat.
FYI - Some of the other lambs (Lucy and myself) have put up their own blog posts with their views if you're interested.
ReplyDeleteI was gonna comment, but it got too long and I already did a 4X comment yesterday. New blog is easier and I'm lazy...
Enjoy! :)
WHAT THE FREAKING HELL PEOPLE? ONCE AGAIN! NOT THE ISSUE!
ReplyDeleteFF writers that produce stories that bear no resemblance to Twilight can publish their work.
This isn't about authors but a "company" that slyly erected itself & marketed itself from their Twilight followers then removed their announcement from the front page of Twilighted!!!!!!!!!!
Hello? TWILIGHTED SEEMS TO SEEK TO EXPLOIT THIS FANDOM BY MANIPULATING READERS INTO BUYING REWORKED FANFICTION TO SUPPORT THE AUTHORS WRITING THESE STORIES!!!!!!!!!! THE AUTHORS ARENT THE BEST, BUT THEIR FUCKING FRIENDS! IS ANYONE PAYING ATTENTION?
You're falling into the trap I believe they've set. We need sound representation to boycott Omnific for their greed & audacity. Making this personal is rallying people to their side.
I agree with Anonymous. Most of us do.
ReplyDeleteAgreed with anon. So many authors and readers are pissed, but scared to speak out because of this stupid shit. It's disappointing.
ReplyDeleteTina,
ReplyDeleteMy dear sweet girl. I agree with you whole heartedly about not letting people sush up on issues. How will anyone ever know that their is discord and fuckery abrew if the shit isn't sniffed out, as you say? I do not agree with the assessment, but like I said in my original post, it is just my opinion. I respect yours and can even see from an angle where you and Kay are coming from when it deals with works being published that are too much like Twilight. I do not think when a story has robbed SM or any other fandoms authors of their original ideas, should be published. I think that is wrong, but I don't see a problem with something like The Office that is so far from the Twilight realm, but that is neither here nor there. We can just agree to disagree as I stated, I respect all opinions on the matter, even though I may not agree. It is yours to have and again, kudos for making your opinion known. You have the right.
My initial distaste of it was the way it was originally done and stated. I was a little shocked with the way it was originally posted and girl, coming from me that says something. But with the rework of the post to be more... tasteful, it seems valid and not just a bitchy rant. Sometimes we don't realize just how hurtful our ramblings can be. It did come off as disrespectful and rude, but with the rewrite and the mention that you didn't mean it to be that way, it softened the blow a little.
I am all for debating the issues and getting the word out about something I am passionately oppossed to or for. I just think that their is a way to handle it and the first post wasn't the way to do that in my opinion. But this is your blog, you do what you want, I was just a little shocked and pissed to be honest that a group of women I respect and work I admire, would be so disrespectful. That was a little overwhelming to me. I don't think that anyone should ever be upset with someone else over differences of opinion, that is caddy and trivial. Not everyone agrees with one another, but we can be adults and discuss our opinions in an appropriate manner without trying to bash anyone or hurt someones feelings (even though I know their are a lot of people who don't care if they do). It just causes unnecessary drama and discord for no reason. I am not just speaking to you,as I said the rewrite was much better, but to all commentors. It is alright to disagree with one another but we don't have to be hateful is all I am saying.
I know I just went off on a total hold your hands hippie love the world, moment there. I just hate to see such discord among others over stupid shit. Not that the issue is stupid, because it is obviously seen as serious on both ends, but just over not being able to debate civally.
My deal was not the issue itself, although I through my two cents in for the hell of it, but the way is was handled origianlly. But again, I applaud you for taking the steps to change it and let everyone know you mean no disrespect. It says a lot about you all.
Much love and I mean no disrespect for my ramblings either, again, I was just stating my opinion.
Iz,
ReplyDeleteIf you look at the blog, myself and Mae have made subsequent posts of our own opinions of the subject of publishing things from fan fiction - they were too long to comment, and this is the posting of one blog member. I stand by Kaylene's post, even if I don't agree with some of the things in it - that's what blogging and freedom of speech is about; making your thoughts known, and starting discussion points.
I do agree that original story ideas that have been tweaked to fit fan fiction, and stories that are far enough removed from the original, which are well written, should have the potential for subsequent reworking and publishing - sadly the stories in questions with Omnific are ones I didn't get to read, so I can make no comment on them.
Stories that are too close to the original idea SM had, or use too much 'cannon' should definitely not be publishable. The debate should be considered on a story by story basis - there is no arbitrary line that can be drawn as a whole on this issue.
There are stories out there in the fan fiction community that I would buy if available - some are better than books I've paid good money for, or borrowed from the library! There are others I wouldn't. But that's what free choice is about.
And for sure, nobody likes it when stories get pulled, but that's an authors prerogative - we might not like it, and yeah it sucks ass if you get invested in something and it disappears - but it's their blood, sweat, and tears, and so, their choice.
I guess the lesson with stories that are being pulled, is to make sure you have copies for personal use - I like to have things to read on the train when my 3G and wifi goes poof!
I hope these issues don't cause any negative ramifications for everyone who enjoys reading and participating in this community.
Lucy x
~catonspeed
Personally, as a reader, my biggest issue with this whole thing is feeling like a test audience. Authors work to get their story out there. They ask for reviews, some practically beg. They start blogs and frequent forums to drum up attention. (I do not consider that a bad thing. I think it is awesome when authors take the time to interact with their readers.) So once they find an audience, they gain a following of loyal readers who love their story. Chapter after chapter we stay with them, support them, rec them. Then little by little their story becomes more and more popular. Their review count skyrockets. We, as readers, are elated to see their success...see the success of a story we care about. Then one day we go back to re-read it and BAM...it has been pulled. It's being published and no matter that we loved, rec'd and reviewed it, no matter that we were loyal readers and eagerly awaited new chapters---if we want to read it again we have to pay $10 for it. That is my issue. I feel a bit used as a reader. They used me as a test audience for free, but require payment from me to continue to be a reader. I marketed their story via reviews, rec's and word of mouth, yet I can no longer read the story unless I pay up. That is the main reason I will not be buying these published stories.
ReplyDeleteNow I'll never be able to finish the stories that have been pulled while I was I the middle of reading them. There are stories I was excited to get to that have been pulled and I'll never get to read them either. Yes, they are many more to choose from, but I had looked forward to reading these stories and will never get the chance. Now I have picked apart my TBR list and am trying to read the most popular fics first before any more get pulled. Any lesser known stories and authors are now at the bottom of the list. This makes me sad. I want to be able to follow along with great new authors and/or stories and be there to watch them rise in popularity, but all this publishing business means stories can and will be pulled suddenly. If I want to get to a popular story, I know I better get to it fast.
There is one story in particular that I loved that was recently pulled. I was so sad to see it go. I wouldn't be surprised at all if she is published by the Twilighted publishing company. If she gets published, I can be happy for her...for her success. I won't pay for it though because with that story in particular, I feel like a free of charge test audience/marketer and the story just won't be as appealing to me when it's changed. I got into fan fiction simply to find more of Edward and Bella. If these authors wanted to publish original fiction, why didn't they just write their story and submit it for publishing? Why use SM's characters in the first place?
I also slightly agree about the copyright issues, but won't even get into that. I've explained what bothers me the most about all of this.
I am not and have never been irrational about this. I have never attacked an author. A part of me can be genuinely happy for the authors that are being published. I think I'd respect it all more if they were being published by a real publishing house rather than one co-owed by a fan fiction site (smells fishy, no?), but still...get published is a big deal. However, there will just always be a part of me that feels a bit used and I am not going to pay someone to use me. I'll just find new stories to enjoy.
PS: If you'd like to hate on my opinion, feel free to. I won't be back to respond. I just wanted to get my opinion out somewhere. I'm not looking to fight, argue or debate. We are all entitled to our opinions whatever they may be.
Does it suck to start reading a fic and then it disappears? Sure...if I did't want to read it, I wouldn't have started it. Should a talented author who writes a story that shares names with another published work but otherwise bears no resemblance to it have the opportunity to be published? Sure, if the author desires it.Should I as a reader belittle or punish that author for their decision? Absolutely not. That is not my place nor should it be. We all do this for our own reasons and I have no right to berate another author for behaving in a manner I disagree with. It's simply disrespectful of that person. I have no other real comment except the reminder that your message can get lost when the tone is as disrespectful as the orginal post was. I see you've reworked the post and it is not as offensive. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Shit, I have opinions, too, but it would never cross my mind to attack another author. There is entirely too much disrespect flowing around the fandom right now. You can have a strong opinion, you can be disgusted or pissed off and still manage to share it with others in a respectful manner. See? I just did!
ReplyDeleteSparabella would like everyone to be aware of the response posted regarding this blog entry. It can be found on both Clurrabella and Sparagus blogs
ReplyDeletehttp://ffsparagus.blogspot.com/2010/01/re-alasl-blog-pulling-of-stories.html
http://clurrabellaa.blogspot.com/2010/01/re-alasl-blog-pulling-of-stories.html
There is a response to the all of the above now. You can find it here. I will no longer take this business to this blog, this is a group blog, and we will hold to the mentioned disclaimer below. Myself included.
ReplyDeletehttp://idreamofeddy.blogspot.com/2010/01/so-here-it-is.html